Dr. Liza Grossman is the Director of Research and Evaluation for Stark Education Partnership
Dr. Liza Grossman is the Director of Research and Evaluation at a dynamic nonprofit, Stark Education Partnership (edpartner.org), working to elevate education, learning, programs and all students' success through data and data-driven decision-making. She is a trained sociologist from the University of South Carolina and the University of Akron and is honored to be a part of a vibrant community of life-long learners and collaborators in Stark County, Ohio. There is nothing like working with talented and caring professionals across the spectrum who partner together to continuously work to provide all students with education and career success.
Dr. Grossman can be reached at Liza.Grossman@edpartner.org.
Daniela: Welcome to Why Sociology?
Angela: a podcast series featuring many interviews with sociology majors who have taken career pathways beyond academia in applied and clinical careers. And to show not only tell
Daniela: why and how sociology matters in today's world
Angela: we are Angela Adkins from Stark State College and
Daniela: I'm Daniela Jauk from the University of Akron,
Angela: both located in rubber city, Akron, Ohio,
Daniela: but we feature sociological movers change makers and shakers from all over the US in the globe. Welcome to why sociology, we are so overjoyed. Today we have Dr. Liza Grossman. With us. We are meeting at the Stark State College campus which is also exciting. Welcome, Liza, we jump right into it and ask you what are you doing?
Liza: What am I doing?
Daniela: Tell us a little bit about your current job role.
Liza: Okay. So thank you for having me. First of all, it's I'm very excited to be here. And I am currently Director of Research and Evaluation at a small but mighty nonprofit in Canton, Ohio, that focuses on education, Stark Education Partnership, and we are a cradle to career organization. So I get to work for the betterment of students, all over Stark County, and often greater Stark County,
Daniela: and what are your concrete activities in this job?
Liza: I'm known as the data lady. So what's interesting is that a lot of people I think, are surprised because yes, I am. Absolutely. As Dr. Andre Christie Mizel always said, Follow the data. And he was absolutely right. And so that is my role in the organization in terms of like my specific role ideal in all things data. And that could be secondary data that can be data, a collect for a project or a grant, very often, my role right now tends to be around evaluation. So for our organization, SEP does not have any students. We don't have any real data of our own. But we have built amazing trust in the community. And we work for the betterment of all students and educators. And so very often people will share their data with us. And we treat that like gold, like the treasure that it is, and with great respect. So we never reveal, we keep it in confidence, right. And we protect that as much as we possibly can. So everything that we put out. So if you go to our website at partner.org, you'll see we have a data dashboard with important and not all of the important but some highlighted important data points with regard because as we know, with the research, there are predictive points in student's educational career and lifelong learning, at least in the early years. And so we try to capture at least some metric around that. We do that in the aggregate, okay, you will never find on our site, pitting one group against a different group, that kind of thing. It's not that we don't look at disaggregated data, but when we put it out into the public, it's always in the aggregate.
Angela: What a fantastic community resource that can be used, I mean, really, in so many different ways and to serve so many different parts of the community. And so that to me, right there is sort of, you know, sociology in a nutshell, but but I will ask you more of how does sociology inform what you do specifically?
Liza: what doesn't sociology inform? Seriously? Okay, the why sociology? Are you kidding? Yes, because this is what we live in. So it's like stepping out of the Terranea. Um, you know, and looking in so you can see the patterns and see the picture, the fuller picture, right. And what's beautiful about sociology is that it gives you an eye for questions, and it gives you perspectives. So, when people at the table and let me tell you, there's something really it's such an honor to be at the tables that I'm at, like to be able to serve at those tables. And that's how I come at my job. That's how I come at this life is from a service mentality. It's not about me, it's about the work. And it's about making this a better world. And sociology absolutely informs that
Angela: that is very powerful. I think that's the thing that we all look for. And that's the thing that we all hope for. And I think that that's the thing that we all love this discipline because of that.
Liza: And I didn't prep for this. Right? More coffee!
Angela: If you were a student, like, what do you think is an important piece of advice to give a student? Like, what is the thing that you're going to learn as a major?
Liza: Well, okay, so first, stay curious. Always stay curious. Right? Very often people go and they go into this Umbridge, or they go to where it's comfortable. So they're just not really learning. They're just kind of like, validating what they think they already know. Get, get rid of that. Push yourself. Stay curious. If something really ticks you off. Don't get mad, get curious, put that anger, put that whatever, and start asking questions. And I think sociology is good place for that. Because there's lots of ways and means to ask really cool questions. That open up. I mean, careers. Right. Um, and then four. Oh, there was a second thing. Sorry, mommy brain. It doesn't matter how old they are. It just happens. I'm like, Oh, no. And you keep thinking Alzheimer's, Parkinson's? I don't know. But, but, um, so Oh, methods? Yeah, it's not sexy. All right. Let me just say, data, methods, research and methods, okay. And then your theory courses, there's a reason why those are the basic foundation. That's something you can take with you, and use in so many different ways. It's just incredible, the amount of ways that you can use that now, if it's not something that you really like to do, then, you know, maybe you should look at something else. I really get into finding out about what does this data telling us, you know, and like, so yeah, I can, there's not always like, not every step of the process can be exciting. But getting there and getting those results, and then taking that, and actually helping others in the practice of what they're doing. To make it better. That's amazing. That has real world implications and results.
Daniela: So why did you personally gravitate towards sociology? Was this always a choice? Or how did you find your path into the field?
Liza: Yeah, it was, it was a very rocky road for me. I went to school, dropped out, went back to school, dropped out, went to school again, finally stuck and got a Bachelor's Degree in Public Relations and a minor in sociology. Now, here's what's funny, I'd never taken I've been through three schools never taken a sociology course, sitting in University of South Carolina, taking an intro to social course. And we fill out the survey, because we're in social class, the first thing he does is make us fill out a survey. And it's like, 300 people in this class, everybody's pulling him down. I'm in the front, front row, because Hello, be in the front row. And at the top, it says your age. Well, I put mine on top of my rose thing, and the girl next to me looks over and goes, oh my god, there's someone in here who's 24. And she looks at me, and I go, Yeah, that's me. She was like, Oh, um, I said, Yeah, it's all good. It's all good. And by the way, if you're in a big class, I actually don't care how big the classes go meet your professor, which I did. I'm reading the textbook. And I got excited. I'd have to share what I was learning with my husband. So I gave myself I tried to do like that, oh, I've got to get something major and something that will give me a job, which is baloney people it's baloney. Alright, it's it's not it's not that jobs aren't important, or you shouldn't look at that. What I'm saying is follow a passion and then you find your job. That's my personal view. Use it as you will. But I didn't do that. I went for public relations thinking Oh, I like people. And then I thought I'm going to minor in something I love. Something that maybe I want to get a master's in. I wasn't even thinking PhD. Like a master's straight. And then I thought philosophy maybe. And then I thought religion, maybe something thing that I love. And I took that social class and I swear to God, it was like, everything in my life from the time that I can remember, everything in my life made sense, there was words, there were terms that were things that helped me see things that I have noticed, and observed my whole life in new ways to understand them.
Angela: I love that idea of sort of letting it come to you if you're following something that's meaningful to you. And it's really, that is a refreshing piece. And I think many of us did come to sociology that way, and that it speaks to you on so many different levels. And you sort of let it take you where it takes you because it is so useful everywhere. That is, it's a really powerful statement about finding the piece that that moves you. And that will be the thing that you pursue.
Liza: There's always going to be the This sucks factor. Yeah, I don't care what job you're in. I don't care what you're doing. The whole idea, this lie, they tell so many lies. Well, if you like what you do, you don't have to work a day in your life. I'm here to tell you, that's a lie. Okay, but if you love what you're doing, then it's worth the price, it means something and you're putting something into something that you care about, because it's not worth anyone's time. If you're not putting yourself into it, in my view, then you need to be working to get where you can.
Angela: How did you come to the job that you come into now?
Liza: The academic answer is the strength of weak ties. Right, so Mark Granovetter. And using my network, which is how I really fell in I mean, that's where I gravitated for my doctorate for all of my stuff is belonging is, is networks, and relationships, because honestly, guys, that's how everything works. Okay? It's really that simple. You utilize your network, you have to be aware of your network in order to utilize it. So and it's not just who you who, you know, it's important, but it's who they know, right? So you can't just think about your own network. And you can't sit there, I'm sorry, but no offense to anyone and expect it to come to you. No, no, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and nurture and grow your network. Think of it like a garden. Okay. That's what a community is, it's a garden, right? And we we have to nurture that if we want to have anything of meaning come out of it. Or it's not to look like straw all year round, right? So putting yourself out there, and you don't have to put yourself out there and in a certain way, it can be lots of different ways. It can be ways that suit you. But you do have to put yourself out there. For me, it was a very hard, it was very hard. I think for any academics. I'm speaking not just to students, but to academics. So a lot of people who are getting your PhDs right now. It's okay. It's still worth your time. I would caution people who are thinking about a PhD to be really sure that's what they need to do. But if you're in it, and you love it, finish it. Because it's not worth much if you don't finish it. And in fact, that's true for every student listening. Finish it. Okay. I don't care what it is a certificate, a associate's, a bachelor's degree. But whatever you're working on, finish, it gets something a credential, you can always go back and stack it up. Right. But you've got to finish it. Because let me tell you, I know from experience that some college doesn't do anything for your paycheck, or your options in terms of advancement in a job. Okay, sorry, sidebar. So
Daniela: that's really valuable sidebar, because you are speaking data base.
Liza: Yeah. Working your network, knowing your network and working it and working in kind ways. So what does that look like? You do your part, and the rest will come it will have faith. But here's the thing, sometimes it doesn't come the way you expect it to. This is my life. I was married to being a professor. And then nothing worked. Yeah, so not anything nothing. I interviewed for whatever job I could in the area, and nothing happened. Nothing worked. And so I finally woke up and said, Well, what skills do I I have, because there are lots of skills in any level. And I don't care. This is true, guys. Any level sociology degree that you achieve, that you earn has skills associated with it. So what are those skills? So that's what I did. I went online, I said, I need a resume. And I also say yes to every opportunity. So I had an opportunity to go work for nothing. But it was the best experience. And I'm forever grateful to BB green for this. And to Becky Erickson, Dr. Erickson first for connecting me hello networks, to Barb green, with common good consulting. And it was an amazing experience. I got field experience, I helped her out. And we were able to form a really cool mentoring kind of relationship. And from that, I could then start, okay, I have some experience now, which is also just really important. Because it's not just your degree, you need both. I said yes. To every teaching opportunity. I said yes to every other opportunity. And I started volunteering. Well, I'd already been volunteering, but I upped it. I mean, I started getting myself out there. And here's something a lot of people don't tell you. volunteer experience is still experience. And you you put it down as volunteer experience, it shows a deeper level of commitment to your community and to people to potential employers. And it often is like real life work experience, you're just not getting paid for it. So absolutely. Now I came to a place where I got written out of people's stories, I had done very good jobs. I had done my best. And I got I still got written out of their stories, I had no job. And I was walking to my car. I know, adjunct in jobs, nothing lined up, and it was like a month away from the holidays. And I'm like trying to breathe, trying to keep that faith that I just talked about. And I literally walk into my car, I look up at the heavens, and I'm like, is this really all there is, as I'm going to my car, my phone rings. And it's Adele. And I'm forever grateful. She she was like, we're reviewing applications, you need to get it to me right now. So there was no time. I just wrote it out. Just just wrote it out and sent it and, and then after like three or four interviews, because they're really good jobs, they want to make sure before they. And I just went with it. It was a, you know, when I was working at those things, I learned some really important lessons. And one of them was about, like I said before coming at it from a service perspective. It does it so no job if it needs to be done is too small. So while it's good to stay in your lane, I guess right? To not like go too far away from what you should be doing. That's not what I'm saying. If it's in your organization, and if it's in your mission, and that's the work. It doesn't matter if it's stuffing envelopes to get a mailing out on time, or looking at data in a hierarchical model model or something or structural equation modeling doesn't really matter. It's about getting done, what needs to get done. And that's how I approached everything, including the interview. Because if this was the right place for me, then that's where I would be. So it was just hey, I get to meet cool people. That's how I came at it. It wasn't Oh, no. Am I going to get the job? Oh, no, no, no, because
Daniela: You stay curious. Your follow your own advice, for a mindset of curiosity.
Angela: And it seems like at every stage of the process that you draw on some sort of sociological skills, yes, through that process, but I like that that it goes back to the original. Yeah,
Daniela: you are such a beautiful storyteller. Because this this story really shows you're working with everything you have touched upon your network, how you are calling people behind the scenes. The volunteer work also translates into internships for example. Valuable and also expand your network occasionally to the experience on your resume. Yes, exactly. And that's all very valuable advice. Which brings me to our last question. What is the one thing you wish you would have known as a social major? Do you have any secret tip for the social majors or future social majors that might be here listening
Liza: Go to the first day of class always. That's when your professor is most vulnerable and tells you and tells you what they expect. Everything you need to know in order to be successful in a course is on the first day of class. And I wish I would have known that earlier.
Daniela: You packed into 20 minutes so much, then I will think about it for weeks. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your time with the listeners. That was just beautiful. This was just great. Thank you. Thank you Thank you for tuning into why sociology, stay tuned for more mini interviews with applied and clinical sociology and see you next time!